Curse

JR · Apr 17, 2007, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I love the MH style, but one thing bothered me. Playing 7v7 at the stand, I count 5 mending touches, and an RC, but only one hex removal (holy veil). I realize the idea is to be able to split and adapt, so that you could deter hex builds with tactics and interrupts, but... one holy veil? Hexes happen, imo. Frozen burst could really ruin your day.

That's why the Rangers have Savage and D-Shot.

Remember, no build is without weak points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I should probably ask this then - how many times has your Warrior used the hard rez? Just doesn't seem like it would work to me. He's in the frontline, it costs him a lot of energy, it gives the other team a bigger opportunity to push you hard while he's standing there using it, and of course it's such Massively Obvious interrupt-bait. I've never even considered a Hard Rez on a Warrior so this is very new territory for me.

Enough to make it worthwhile having instead of a sig. Barely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Hmm, with the Hammer Warrior + all the cripple around in the build I didn't see being able to train someone as much of a problem. For splitting Enraging Charge lasts just as long as a pure run buff and the fact that it ends when you hit someone doesn't seem like much of a problem to me since you have Bull's Strike + Shock as soon as you get into range. So I guess I'm still a bit confused there.

You don't want to be stuck in Enraged's down time having just used it to build adren, then to find you are being collapsed on and you have to make a quick retreat. Point is, you will have sprint on you for a far greater amount of time than you will have Enraged - and in a split like this that is a very important factor.

Zuranthium · Apr 17, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

You don't want to be stuck in Enraged's down time having just used it to build adren, then to find you are being collapsed on and you have to make a quick retreat. Point is, you will have sprint on you for a far greater amount of time than you will have Enraged - and in a split like this that is a very important factor.

Hmm, I think I would still personally prefer Enraging. This Warrior is never going to splitting to the opposing base or your own base by himself - there will always be someone around to Cripple or Prot. For a split when you're entering in with 0 adren, I very much like the ability to Charge in and Bull's Strike someone, Shock them when they stand up, and then have enough adren to use Eviscerate + Excutioner's Strike by the time they have stood up again.

~Z

JR · Apr 17, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Hmm, I think I would still personally prefer Enraging. This Warrior is never going to splitting to the opposing base or your own base by himself - there will always be someone around to Cripple or Prot.

He often leaves the flag team solo to join other splits around the map. Then there is trying to stay on a flagger's tail, for example. You used Enraged and you get the Bull's and Shock off - but if you haven't killed them by then you pretty much lost it. They can kite you all day until Enraged recharges again. With Sprint you can stay hard on them and keep DPSing.

Zuranthium · Apr 17, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

He often leaves the flag team solo to join other splits around the map. Then there is trying to stay on a flagger's tail, for example. You used Enraged and you get the Bull's and Shock off - but if you haven't killed them by then you pretty much lost it. They can kite you all day until Enraged recharges again.

I don't see how Sprint helps to chase a flagger, though, since they carry a 33% speed boost and this build has absolutely no enchantment removal anywhere? It seems to me like you're depending on the various Cripples throughout the build and/or chaining knockdowns between the two Warriors to stop incoming flagrunners. *puzzled*

~Z

Thom Bangalter · Apr 17, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

JR said on IRC that they ran a water e/rt for a while but JR convinced them to run a mo/e with gale.

I think the e/rt would be much, much better, but hey! JR can barely play monk, let alone anything else.

JR · Apr 17, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

JR said on IRC that they ran a water e/rt for a while but JR convinced them to run a mo/e with gale.

No. We decided the E/Rt was sacrificing the too much durability for limited offense, when a Monk gives you passive offense by allowing you to play much more aggressively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I don't see how Sprint helps to chase a flagger, though, since they carry a 33% speed boost and this build has absolutely no enchantment removal anywhere? It seems to me like you're depending on the various Cripples throughout the build and/or chaining knockdowns between the two Warriors to stop incoming flagrunners. *puzzled*

You could argue the point all day. Our Warrior preferred Sprint.

Lania Elderfire · Apr 18, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

For the flag stand I'd use Rush but If I know that I'm splitting as a warrior, then I'd use sprint w/o question. It's more than just preference, because enraged ends when you hit, the adrenaline isn't worth it, and even w/o a speed boost on your enemy it can still run around giving you a hard time.

Narcism · Apr 18, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

You could argue the point all day. Our Warrior preferred Sprint.

Hey that's me.

The extra X seconds from having Sprint perma-up, then throwing out Enraging Charge, to me, is not worth the adrenaline gain. Just like Rush isn't worth having a poor split run buff.

When you understand the bar functions amazingly without pumping out those attack skills just a little bit more at the expense of getting kited.. you'll understand.

Zuranthium · Apr 18, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

When you understand the bar functions amazingly without pumping out those attack skills just a little bit more at the expense of getting kited.. you'll understand.

I completely understand the benefit of a solid run buff. What I was saying, however, is that (A.) kiting should not be as much of a problem b/c of the various Cripples/Knockdowns in the build, and (B.) If you are indeed solo-chasing a flagger and Cripple is not around, what good does the more-constant 25% speed boost do anyway since they have a 33% speed boost?

~Z

Robster Lobster · Apr 18, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I completely understand the benefit of a solid run buff. What I was saying, however, is that (A.) kiting should not be as much of a problem b/c of the various Cripples/Knockdowns in the build, and (B.) If you are indeed solo-chasing a flagger and Cripple is not around, what good does the more-constant 25% speed boost do anyway since they have a 33% speed boost?

~Z

Bear in mind that carrying the flag slows down the character carrying it though, so with Sprint you should be able to get quite a few auto-crits in.

moriz · Apr 18, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

welcome back JR... haven't seen you around for a while. or were you never gone and were watching us from the shadows like the little turtle you are?

anyways, some comments on the build:

the wammo with the hardrez made me lol pretty hard. had anyone other than you suggested it, that person will probably get laughed at all the way to honolulu. i have a similar split build sitting around that's very effective, but i'm hesitant of posting it here because it featured the hardrez on the runner. maybe i should dig it up and polish it off sometime later.

your build demonstrates why i personally enjoy split builds. they have an uncanny ability to force your opponents to play your way (if you're good, that is). one of the most important aspect of GvG (or any competitive event, for that matter) is to force your opponents to adapt to you, and not the other way around. i feel in gvgs the best way to achieve this is to present a dangerous split, and this build does the job perfectly.

Zuranthium · Apr 18, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robster Lobster

Bear in mind that carrying the flag slows down the character carrying it though, so with Sprint you should be able to get quite a few auto-crits in.

OMFG. I completely forgot about that point.

Me = owned.

Although, still, it's really only good against a Monk runner. Anyone else will have Cripple or hex snare to deal with you. Of course, Monk runners are quite popular. So I do see the argument for using the skill now.

~Z